The Blog-grapher: an H-SIG proposal
24-Mar-04
The Blog-grapher: an H-SIG proposal
Jacques SOUILLOT
souillot.jacques@wanadoo.fr
It is growing more and more difficult to show the value and quality of KM papers and documents, and promote them, when too much commenting is disconnected from the original concern of the authors and the topics they deal with.
To remedy this handicap, mainly due to the manifestation of chaotic behaviours, which are themselves linked to the generous availability of technologies and free spaces, a number of KnowledgeBoard editors and readers or visitors are seen to develop "blogs" of their own.
It certainly is a great loss for the community, and the community culture which is supposed to develop in the wake of the growing of the traffic and debating on the website of KB2. Nevertheless it is bound to question our ways of promoting the thinking that counts and that is worth sharing.
Mind you, it does not mean that the bloggers have deserted KB: it is more like a sign of their need for more serene breathing spaces. So it is our responsibility, we think, to make sure we are not losing the best they can offer us. Not everything in blogs is of first class relevance, no need to say, but we should try to keep linked to what is best there.
The H-SIG, in this thread, would like to help people get to the gems available in the world of blogs which are related to the themes it is dedicated to. A simple link to a blog or an article is not enough though. What we need is a quick presentation of an article: its main ideas, what makes it original or innovative.
If you have spotted such an article in one blog or another (yours?) why not make an entry about it in this thread? Ethics, sustainable development, cultural diversity and KM are essential aspects of the development of our European Society of Knowledge: let's work at it!
Details
- Author:
- Jacques SOUILLOT
- Publisher:
- KnowledgeBoard
- Date:
- 24-Mar-04
- Categories:
- Human and Social, Human Side of KM
- Sections:
This article has been read 8152 times.
Tools
Member comments (27)
Share your views with other users: add your own comments to this item.
"KM as Social Development"
A reminder by Olaf Brugman of the need for clearer definitions in some KM initiatives. It is to be found on his weblog:
One of the paragraphs that make his objectives quite explicit:
In our Western culture, we tend to think that our achievements are solely based on our own efforts. But they are not. We tend to think that we are on our own, and that life is about arm wrestling and getting the biggest piece of the cake. "I think, therefore I am", said René Descartes. But the truth is: ...
Want to know more? Well go to Goiaba blogs
And thank you Olaf!
Connecting Weblogs and KnowledgeBoard
Here is another link to my article "Connecting Weblogs and KnowledgeBoard" which wouldn't exist if the "Blog-grapher" hadn't been written:
http://www.knowledgeboard.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=127379
Knowledge ecology/gardening
The text KM and the Skill of Gardening, by Helen MARTIN (in this SIG: "The Human Side of KM")
http://www.knowledgeboard.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=127159
gave rise to a few comments, among which:
Denham Grey , 10 June 2004 @ 03:32 AM
Knowledge sharing
where Denham invites us to visit at his blog
http://denham.typepad.com/km/2003/10/ecology_or_libr.html
his text entitled
Ecology or library?"When working with knowledge it is more useful to picture an ecology, than to envision a library - think links, relationships & flow rather than collections, classification & objects"
An illustrative paragraph of his, which can be seen as a declaration encouraging us towards working for the good of everyone and every society on this planet will convince you to have a deeper look at his text:
Through design and practices consistent with this thinking [knowledge ecology], we can increase the intelligence, the knowledge creation possibilities, the sustainable action capacities which will result in continual increases in knowledge and its application for individuals and for our human institutions.
Some more thinking is necessary?
Plenty of bloggers have shown their interest, that is quite right. It really is the expression of a real need, from a wide section of the KM enthusiasts, for the sharing of knowledge on sane and grass-root attitudes, and for the sake of the knowledge society enhancement in general.
The test referred to as Testing RSS integration carried out in this SIG is making it clear there are a wide range of possibilities to be envisaged. This means a lot of thinking still has to be put into the definition of the links we really want to establish here between the various forms of internet media.
The technicalities should find solutions, no doubt, and those can be directly assessed through their efficiency. However what has to be put under scrutiny is the objectives of the stake-holders of the various systems and the contents that can be delivered.
We certainly are not in favour of a technology for technology's sake stance! If problems have to arise it will be on the consensus to be reached as to how much the saying of the grass-root people has to be taken into account.
So let's hope people do not see it is all a problem of precedence of a system on another, of particular interests on more general ones. Surely European issues are more important than individual or institutional bickerings.
Excellent Idea
Hello Martin, Jacques, Ton, Miguel
My observations:
1) I seems to see Bloggers writing about KM (such as would be a reporter), BUT I do not see KM (e.g KB) writing or following the writings of Bloggers.
A one-way traffic.
2) The news about BlogTalk (2003), BlogWalk (2004)...they were never reported (linked) at KB until now. Considered quite a few of the participants at these two events are KB SIG editors. Something don't add up.
3) If we read what Martin Dugage posted on this thread (Martin R. Dugage , 25th March 2004
On blogs and CoPs - My two cents worth)
"Actually, I went to blogwalk in Entschede, and we had a very interesting discussion on "Blogs and Cops". I posted a summary of what we talked about with Andy Boyd and others on my blog at http://blog.mopsos.com/archives/000080.html
Interesting to see that I had no other place to post it, because it reflects MY view of our discussion. Had it been a joint document, it would have been posted on the Blogwalk site. Had it been the result of a discussion on the KnowledgeBoard, it would have been posted here."
4) Or Martin Roell on this same thread (Martin Röll , 17 April 2004 @ 10:56 AM - Excellent idea) ...
5) Bloggers posting here, bringing their news here...manually. Highly inefficient and ineffective. Putting the burden on the Bloggers. PUSH and no PULL. Working against most human characteristics.
6) We have knowledge production (works from bloggers), the WANT to share, but there is no facilities to host it. Where is the 'water-cooler'?
7) Organizations are looking at how to capture the knowledge produce by bloggers. To do that there need to be a bridge to link the two seperate communities. Automatically and systematically. The most logical usage of IM portion of KM, IMHO, but is missing.
8) If I look at the situation now at KB and bloggers it resembles the typical, traditional, high power distance behaviour. Best example to manage knowledge?
9) The chat sessions we had on 15 April resulted in the testing we are conducting now at H-SIG as a crucial step ONE.
10) The next step should be a f2f to 'cement the bridge'?
Cindy
Excellent idea
Last BlogWalk has shown that it can connect Bloggers and Non-Bloggers and create value for everyone involved (I think the meeting would have been much worse if there had been only bloggers!). So let's bring Blog- and KB-people together (it happened before, at KM Europe 2003!) and find out how these two worlds connect to eachother.
Sounds like an excellent idea!
Hum, Ton, it would seem you are there suggesting something quite relevant. Instead of letting things ferment (and perhaps lose their momentum) in places more or less distant from one another, it could be better to bring them together and see what they add to then. Which should be more than their simple addition, as all KM workers will reckon!
If more KB people think this could be a profitable approach we might well ask the KB2 partners what they think of such an original and creative idea and see if they could support the kind of meeting you are suggesting could take place.
Sounds really awfully good to me. And to a few of you readers?
F2F meeting of Bloggers and CoP members
If our aim is to bring together both bloggers and KB-members (which of course are very much overlapping groups), I can suggest organizing a BlogWalk meeting around it.
One of the topics discussed in the first of these meetings was the bridge between blogging and CoP, and we could extend that discussion in a next meeting.
Maybe with some KB sponsoring?
Phew! or few?
A few URLs leading to enlivening blog pages should crop up daily. But it is not the case, and this comes as a surprise, so to say.
Do people keep their discoveries secret ("non-sharing") and relish on succulent dishes on their own? Do bloggers want to restrict their public to the blogging sphere? Is there an implicit rule that once a page is on a blog it cannot be publicised anywhere else?
Mind you, it could also mean that some people want to "keep themselves to themselves". Another type of community of course. RSS feeds are there to cement it.
But frankly there must be something more to it than belonging to the population of bloggers; there must be reasons why we do not get references to intellectually stimulating blog pages?
Any idea?
Microsoft and Blogs
http://news.com.com/2100-7343_3-5185841.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=news
central blogger
In KM terminology I think the most intriguing question is to ask who is the most socially networked blogger, (of course you can add) in field XXX to contextually focus to your community of P or I...
You can then map who that blogger recommends, and by and large you can work out what conversational share by rank order of epople proximity is webbed around that epicentre of blogging
Of course you can ask what conversational topic will become such a virus amongst readers that it elevates whomever blogged it into whole new epicentre of their own. Though here one has to be careful: there are some subjects that click internet eyeballs and some that click mass media eyeballs-and this seems to be true however much you refine your eyeballs to an expert community rather than the wider public; finding the thread between the two isnt done that often as far as I am aware. (Oh yes I do mean all the senses not just sensory ones though the eyes seem to act as a first screen in 2-dimensional worlds of digital)
Of course I'd love examples or counter-examples of some of the above remarks if they connect with your intuition.
Silos, Silos, Silos
Hi John,
I agree with you...paradigm shift.
Paradigm shift at KB needs action and leaderships from the partners who are running KB. Lots of actions. At the minimum the dare to change, create chaos, willingness to compromise, open and accepting, unafraid to remove what don't work, brave enough to work against protocol...
Last August, a small group of SIG editors met and came up with some suggestions to make some paradigm sift. We provided our proposals. We heard nothing back. No YES. No NO. Silence. 10 months is alot of silences.
Forget about how KB should be managed. Let's just look at the most basic element of KM. From a lay-person. ME.
KM advocates communications. To share knowledge we have to 'communicate'...in writing, talks, f2f...Sharing knowledge has to come from both sides, or many sides. We are not doing it here. We do not share knowledge whether it is about running this place, or resolving conflicts. We are competing rather than cooperating. We are trying to push people out of the way rather than work together towards a common goal. I see individualistic rather than community spirit. Mostly ego gets in the way of common sense.
Here I quote again what Denham said.
The document is dated: September 07, 2003
One significant quote from it:
It is a shame to see the once vibrant KM conversations slowly dwindle. We need to raise key issues, question assumptions, promote reciprocity and deeper dialog, include new voices and do a better job of cross pollination. (Denham Grey)
Normally I prefer to voice my concerns in a more private setting. But I cannot find a Bawling-post at KB!
Perhaps I should go back to blogging!
Cindy
Why oh why?
Hi Cindy - very interesting comment, and questions. Well done for getting on the case with organising the teleconference and the face-to-face.
Don't have all the answers to your questions but I tend to revert to the need for KB to focus much less on the silos and much more on motivating (financially or otherwise) editors to spend a lot of time cross linking conversations, both inside KB and - crucially - outside.
This is primarily - I suggest - a human task and the emphasis must not be on tech.
I participate anywhere on line where someone connects to my passions. A few really well-motivated hosts would make a lot of difference. But to get to that point requires a big shift in paradigm for those who funded KB...
Some statistic about bloggers
Just one of 3 articles that I came across which has some interesting aspects on bloggers.
http://www.perseusdevelopment.com/blogsurvey/thebloggingiceberg.html
Cindy
Let's start the ball rolling!
Hi John,
I think the synergy (never thought I would use this world) is here NOW to bring people together and see how we can move to the next level. To see how we can 'connect'-- as David was thinking aloud during one of our e-mails.
Conversing with Jacques last night - we will initiate a chat or conference call mid-April. Then follow-up with a f2f later this year.
Of course even if we could solve the technology side of linking people together, we still have the TRUST issue that was your original SIG! That I personally find it the most troubling, intriguing and rewarding.
I used the analogy of Friends and Strangers when I compared Bloggers and traditional CoP. If we look closer at KB, each SIG is really a 'group of like-minded people sharing the same interests' = loosely resemble Bloggers-CoP. Really we do have groups of 'friends'. But why is it not working? Why there are SIG silos? Why there is little cooperation between SIGs? Why is it that some Sig editors want to be left alone when others were soliciting for their cooperations to make KB runs better? These are all human behaviour that I think could be improved.
I think KB is providing us a good case study itself. HOW to make it runs more efficiently, effectively, agile, less top-down, less bureaucratic, more effective central-control mechanism etc.
Cindy
More on joining up
I agree with John about energy, blogs, and meeting. I've blogged a piece http://partnerships.typepad.com/civic/2004/03/more_about_join.html mentioning this H-SIG discussion
Where the energy goes
This is a very interesting discussion. Like several others, I find that I am putting my energy into my blog now, rather than into online communities, including (sorry) KB, but also things like ecademy.
At heart, I think that blogging and RSS feeds have allowed me to create my own, tailored, online community - of the voices I find compelling, intriguing or provocatively different. That degree of personal choice does not come with communities organised for me by others.
My strong view is that where KB should invest its resources is into facilitating more real world meetings of people and place less emphasis on hosting online debates. So I would support Cindy in pushing for an EU sponsored meeting of minds to discuss this further!
Time to Meet
We know that organizations are looking at blogging as tool to move information bottom-up, and training people are looking at blogging as teaching/learning medium...
Seems like the right time to meet! Perhaps we can start with a chat or conference call?
Cindy
Online communities are 'old skool' says Amy Jo
Picking up Jaques' requests for links from blogs, here's one from mine that help start some emint discussion.
Amy Jo Kim, one of the gurus of creating and managing large-scale communities on the Net, now says that these forums, chats rooms and email groups are 'old-skool.'
Blogging about emergent purpose, she writes: 'Online communities are old-skool. The heat these days is around social networks, buddy lists &blogs -- all bottom-up social tools that place the individual at the center, and grow outward from there. This is a very different design model than message boards, chat rooms and virtual worlds, which are virtual places where where like-minded people congregate.' More here
The follow up on emint was that if if blog posts do start forum discussion, where do you follow up so that - for example - Amy Jo and others can join in. On the forum or the blog?
Do bloggers want to be heard? Well I do...
Cindy wrote:
Recently on e-mint, someone remarked..how to link Blog to the larger audience so that their opinions can be heard. Well, first of all do bloggers want to be heard? If they do, what do they have to do?
... I think it was me that posted to e-mint, so thanks for the chance to follow up. I work mainly with nonprofits, local communities and CoPs, mixing face-to-face and online. Started working life as a journalist. I started blogging 6 months ago because:
- I wanted to increase my online presence and promote use of new media in civil society. Conventional web sites were proving a pain, email lists and forums left me spread all over the place
- I can scan blogs through RSS and get a higher level of content than I would from forums (well, from those blogging anyway)
- I enjoying crafting content that could be useful to people and is linkable (unlike forums)
- I get to start conversations - through comments and trackbacks - with other bloggers and their readers
- I can use links to promote collaborations.
- I can build up a publicly-accessible and coherent content in one place
In short I get better stuff, I can do better stuff, and I can collaborate more effectively. I now need to add a wiki.
But as I indicated in the emint post, it isn't either/or. All these tools are good for different things. The issue for me is how to cross boundaries and join-up good stuff wherever it is.
On blogs and CoPs - My two cents worth
Actually, I went to blogwalk in Entschede, and we had a very interesting discussion on "Blogs and Cops". I posted a summary of what we talked about with Andy Boyd and others on my blog at http://blog.mopsos.com/archives/000080.html
Interesting to see that I had no other place to post it, because it reflects MY view of our discussion. Had it been a joint document, it would have been posted on the Blogwalk site. Had it been the result of a discussion on the KnowledgeBoard, it would have been posted here.
more
The subtext in some critical publications seems to be that being pro blog implies being contra participation in public webspaces. I do not see the necessaary mutual exclusiveness. So is blogging undermining the sense of community? I think that if people complain about people running from public webspaces and turning to blogs, the public spaces obviously didn't offer enough value?
Do we complain about the fact the people visiting a business conference all go home at the end of the day to go do their own thing, even if all those likeminded people came together in the same place, at the same time? I don't think so. So why complain about bloggers who also turn to their blogged homestead and maintain it with care?
Who complain about selfishness of bloggers? They could have chosen to keep all their insights and ideas to themselves? Instead they publish, share, and encounter criticism?
Ok. my contribution for today. Quickly written, unedited, and with typos. When I keep the editing field open to carefully write my text, it has happened that I loose all. IF i save this text, I cannot work on it later on.
continuation
Previous message was accidentally sent, LONG before it was finished. And there's no way I can edit my messages. It is exactly as you said Cindy: blog gives full control about what i can publish and edit. Saves a lot of wasted time and teeth grinding. If you are an active networker, a blog saves a lot of time: i can manage my topics the way I want, can develop topics, and I don't need to go to 20 web spaces (2o passwords, 20 functionalities, 20 conversations) to see what is going on.
And mind you, having a blog or being in a CoP isn't mutually exclusive. They are both ways to connect to people. IN fact, I receive more useful tips, tricks, references, and interesting questions through email from people who read something on my blog, then I see/receive in 99% of the public websites (of which KB is an example). A blog is a great way to be found by people with the same interests. And I do not expect web surfers to get to know me by many scattered posts throughout websites.
About free software: I pay for my blog, and it is worth every penny. Sometimes I wish public webspaces had paid subscription too: that would very quickly sort out whether the content or service is that good that people want to spent some euros on it. Spending some euros is a kind of 'vote', isn't it.
A blog evokes public votes too: if people like what I have to say in my private webspace (blog), and bookmark it to public websites, that is a sign that what was written has some value to others. While I do not impose my views on the readers of a public website by stuffing the site with my views, regardless of whether others want to hear about it or not.
Bloggers make friends? Sure. Why not?
Answers to Cindy
Hi Cindy,
You raise many valid points, and I appreciate your analysis of differences between blogs and CoPs.
Some comments:
- What you call CoPs, often are not CoPs at all, but merely virtual market places that sees a lot of strangers stopping by.
Bloggers vs traditional KM
Some scratchy thoughts came to mind. I am just scrabbling here. So, if you are offended by what I say here, please join in and lets have some good, friendly discussions!!
Here we go:
If blogging is more visible than KM CoP, how is that possible only a few responded to Denham's blog? I would have imagine a lot more since Denham is not me - unknown. And the posting was September 2003. Something is not quite right with blogging either. IMHO.
Bloggers also have the habits of listing the blogs they are reading. So it is a form of promotion of people they know and like. Therefore kinship. Therefore if we reasoning further, it is an 'EXCLUSIVE CLUB', therefore is a CoP. Therefore they are talking among themselves etc.
Are they more successful than the normal KM CoP? I am not that sure. What they do have is freedom. They do not have to deal with the breaucracy that we seems to have to. Perhaps this is the lesson learned for KB2 management?
Recently on e-mint, someone remarked..how to link Blog to the larger audience so that their opinions can be heard. Well, first of all do bloggers want to be heard? If they do, what do they have to do? Or perhaps they are working on it already...such as BlogWalk 1.0.
Last week, a group of bloggers - BlogWalk 1.0 met in Enschede, NL. Why are they doing that? And what will eventually come out of all these get together? I think eventually it will be a CoP either on-line, or f2f. I can stipulate what will be the end game....blog together, swap ideas, and then?? What?
My observations here is:
Bloger starts off as loner, found FRIENDS and now want to share.
Traditional KM sets up a place and invite STRANGERS to come and be friends.
And to analysis further, traditional KM tends to be wealthier, funded, resemble of traditional business environment. Top-down management style. A place to practice good fight with management.
Bloggers tend to be the less wealthier, use free software to save bucks, care-free, younger, the kind of atmosphere more suitable for innovative ideas
Bloggers seems successful at the moment because they are 'forming' their own groups. But what will be over time? When people leave, newcomers join in, ideals changed, they are getting older etc. etc.?
OK. I am waiting to be hit !!
Cindy
Migrating to blogs
An interesting introduction to the phenomenon of the migration of websites readers/editors to weblogs is given us by Denham Grey at his weblog (http://denham.typepad.com), in the text located at the where_are_the_k.html URL.
There, is given us an analysis (however quick it is) of the "dramatic drop in the level of on-line KM discussion across all the key forums"
The document is dated: September 07, 2003
One significant quote from it:
It is a shame to see the once vibrant KM conversations slowly dwindle. We need to raise key issues, question assumptions, promote reciprocity and deeper dialog, include new voices and do a better job of cross pollination. (Denham Grey)
With some deep thinking in the accompanying comments, by Martin Dugage, Lars, Olaf Brugman, Ton Zijlstra, Errik van Bekkum.
Some thoughts and opinions...
Tom Murphy runs a very informative blog of his. There I spotted a few things about RSS, among which the following
If you want to discover more:
http://www.natterjackpr.com/2004/09/17.html#a1170